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Understanding my losses & analysing recs
5 years 9 months ago #155
by Jupe
Replied by Jupe on topic Understanding my losses & analysing recs
They won't dl for one reason or another (i tried through your aoe2.net profile too and enemies pov) and also i think it's from older patch so they wont replay with current patch
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5 years 8 months ago #161
by redneckchemist
Replied by redneckchemist on topic Understanding my losses & analysing recs
Apologies for the tech incompetence.
This is a game rec I struggled to analyze meaningfully- I have very little idea of what I could have done differently..
aoe.ms/replay/?gameId=61844239&profileId=239048
Do you have any advice/checklist to follow when watching recs?
Thanks
This is a game rec I struggled to analyze meaningfully- I have very little idea of what I could have done differently..
aoe.ms/replay/?gameId=61844239&profileId=239048
Do you have any advice/checklist to follow when watching recs?
Thanks
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5 years 8 months ago #162
by Jupe
Replied by Jupe on topic Understanding my losses & analysing recs
Hey, Firstly you want to try to keep an eye on TC production, you went up pop 21 with 9:52 uptime when 9:40 is best possible, so 12 seconds of idle time which is pretty good for your level, but you can always try to work that number down.
Now with franks i'd always recommend pop 20 ( www.aoebuilds.com/aoe2-classes/course/sc...sh/pop-20-scout-rush ) for someone your level, with 1 lumbercamp as you will save some wood so you won't need as many as other civs on wood. Your pop 21 however is completely fine, but im seeing you maybe focus too much on walling early, while you also lack the information of what your opponent is up to. If you saw 100% that he was not doing men at arms and saw the archery range this would've given you 2 big informations that you now missed;
1. You will not be attacked shortly. Which means you don't need to worry about heavy walling and save the villager time (maybe use just 1 villager to finnish the wals, and/or prepare for countering his army)
2. He is going archer, but still open. This means you can and you should send your scouts asap to try and attack before the enemy walls completely. You group up with your scouts too late while your opponent already managed to wall when if you had attacked earlier he would've still been open. With scouts its very important to try and find the opening and try to keep it open for you new scouts to be able to run in.
What happens now is, you go to castle age (your timing is pretty good, but you leave youself unprotected vs an archer attack, however your opponent makes mistake of only attacking your stable (you might've gotten away with repairing it abit, but the looks of it) you could've tried to just haras the archer a bit while they were atacking, to confusse him and keep the stable/being able to rewall safer. Your opponent also didn't have fletching which greatly made it easier for you to wall behind + would'be made it easy to snipe some archers when he was focusing your stable with the spears (as the archer themselves stand no chance vs the scouts)
Once you got to castle you should try to clean up the feudal army he has, track it with your scouts and engage with 4 or 6 knights should be enough to clean it when he still has feudal age upgrades. Now economy wise you idle your tc and you are generally slow to spend your resources here, you could've been able to affort 2 extra tc's straight away instead of delaying. Because you didnt attempt to clean the army of green before he got to castle, he got free pass and free time to upgrade his units. Once green attacks you, you freeze for a while (all the unit ques stop, both tc and stable) Also you garisson a tc and the villagers are still garrisoned long after the army has passed, make sure when you are pressured to try to get the garrisonned idle villagers to work as fast as possible. Sometimes this means you have to completely relocate them to elsewhere, just so you can get them to work instead of idle. If you had kept the quess going and sent your knights back you should've been able to do very good clean up, instead he managed to idle your economy for a very long time. At the same time you just ran through the enemy base pretty much. At this point the game is still more or less even. Now you play passiuvly with your knights which enables your oponent to get to build castles near your base without any military protection.
From early castle age in your case pure knights work fine, making a siege workshop and a mnagonel and or scorpions especially against his pike heavy comp would've been good choice too.
Now before reaching imp what happens is basically you trade your knights for villager kills, when green has no defense at home (however he does have bodking arrow on his tc) Now the trade is good for you, however your eco gets idled at the same time (also you again keep your villagers garrisoned for very very long time in one town center, also don't notice part of the raid and lose some farmers) this leads you to not being able to create army to replace the one you lost, while you opponent keeps his army completely alive and has just enough resources to upgrade it, which leads you in a situation where you can't stop his army, even when in the game situation didn't look statistically bad at all. (this isn't exactly what happened but it is something that is common in this kinds of situations, actually because you don't pay attention enough you end up losing villagers in front of your base, but in the process your opponent also loses his military, and you end up being able to produce knights, However because you didn't replace lost wood villagers earlier and overall because your eco was pretty weak, you couldnt make counter trebuchets against your enemies.
Actually the game overall was very messy and some mistakes were made both ways, but the ending is so complicated to try and give you written answer that i will actually just record a video for you tommorow to finnish this off
(also at this point i realize that overall my text might come of as little confusing, because in the game there were many good but bad, but good moves back and forth)
Anyway i will give you link tommorow, also let me know if some things need clearing up from the text.
Jupe
Now with franks i'd always recommend pop 20 ( www.aoebuilds.com/aoe2-classes/course/sc...sh/pop-20-scout-rush ) for someone your level, with 1 lumbercamp as you will save some wood so you won't need as many as other civs on wood. Your pop 21 however is completely fine, but im seeing you maybe focus too much on walling early, while you also lack the information of what your opponent is up to. If you saw 100% that he was not doing men at arms and saw the archery range this would've given you 2 big informations that you now missed;
1. You will not be attacked shortly. Which means you don't need to worry about heavy walling and save the villager time (maybe use just 1 villager to finnish the wals, and/or prepare for countering his army)
2. He is going archer, but still open. This means you can and you should send your scouts asap to try and attack before the enemy walls completely. You group up with your scouts too late while your opponent already managed to wall when if you had attacked earlier he would've still been open. With scouts its very important to try and find the opening and try to keep it open for you new scouts to be able to run in.
What happens now is, you go to castle age (your timing is pretty good, but you leave youself unprotected vs an archer attack, however your opponent makes mistake of only attacking your stable (you might've gotten away with repairing it abit, but the looks of it) you could've tried to just haras the archer a bit while they were atacking, to confusse him and keep the stable/being able to rewall safer. Your opponent also didn't have fletching which greatly made it easier for you to wall behind + would'be made it easy to snipe some archers when he was focusing your stable with the spears (as the archer themselves stand no chance vs the scouts)
Once you got to castle you should try to clean up the feudal army he has, track it with your scouts and engage with 4 or 6 knights should be enough to clean it when he still has feudal age upgrades. Now economy wise you idle your tc and you are generally slow to spend your resources here, you could've been able to affort 2 extra tc's straight away instead of delaying. Because you didnt attempt to clean the army of green before he got to castle, he got free pass and free time to upgrade his units. Once green attacks you, you freeze for a while (all the unit ques stop, both tc and stable) Also you garisson a tc and the villagers are still garrisoned long after the army has passed, make sure when you are pressured to try to get the garrisonned idle villagers to work as fast as possible. Sometimes this means you have to completely relocate them to elsewhere, just so you can get them to work instead of idle. If you had kept the quess going and sent your knights back you should've been able to do very good clean up, instead he managed to idle your economy for a very long time. At the same time you just ran through the enemy base pretty much. At this point the game is still more or less even. Now you play passiuvly with your knights which enables your oponent to get to build castles near your base without any military protection.
From early castle age in your case pure knights work fine, making a siege workshop and a mnagonel and or scorpions especially against his pike heavy comp would've been good choice too.
Now before reaching imp what happens is basically you trade your knights for villager kills, when green has no defense at home (however he does have bodking arrow on his tc) Now the trade is good for you, however your eco gets idled at the same time (also you again keep your villagers garrisoned for very very long time in one town center, also don't notice part of the raid and lose some farmers) this leads you to not being able to create army to replace the one you lost, while you opponent keeps his army completely alive and has just enough resources to upgrade it, which leads you in a situation where you can't stop his army, even when in the game situation didn't look statistically bad at all. (this isn't exactly what happened but it is something that is common in this kinds of situations, actually because you don't pay attention enough you end up losing villagers in front of your base, but in the process your opponent also loses his military, and you end up being able to produce knights, However because you didn't replace lost wood villagers earlier and overall because your eco was pretty weak, you couldnt make counter trebuchets against your enemies.
Actually the game overall was very messy and some mistakes were made both ways, but the ending is so complicated to try and give you written answer that i will actually just record a video for you tommorow to finnish this off
(also at this point i realize that overall my text might come of as little confusing, because in the game there were many good but bad, but good moves back and forth)
Anyway i will give you link tommorow, also let me know if some things need clearing up from the text.
Jupe
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5 years 8 months ago #164
by redneckchemist
Replied by redneckchemist on topic Understanding my losses & analysing recs
Wow Jupe, thanks for such an in-depth analysis.
I understand all of the points you make here upon rewatching the game. The 20 pop scouts BO is clearly better than the 21 pop when playing Franks, so I have been studying the scouts playlist.
Could you clarify: for 20 pop scouts, how many vills should I have on wood throughout castle? I go up with 5 on one LC, transferring 3 more to wood during uptime, and therefore have 8 vills on wood for the Feudal age- is this correct, or should I add more?
Many thanks
I understand all of the points you make here upon rewatching the game. The 20 pop scouts BO is clearly better than the 21 pop when playing Franks, so I have been studying the scouts playlist.
Could you clarify: for 20 pop scouts, how many vills should I have on wood throughout castle? I go up with 5 on one LC, transferring 3 more to wood during uptime, and therefore have 8 vills on wood for the Feudal age- is this correct, or should I add more?
Many thanks
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